Episode Number: 82
Episode Title: Fierce Tiger, Smart Dog (listen to this episode)
Transcript by: Susan the Great
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Renay: Hey friends, I’m Renay!
Ana: And I’m Ana.
Renay: And you’re listening to Fangirl Happy Hour: Question Thursday Edition.
Ana: But wait, what happened to Question Tuesday?
[Music: B-3 by BoxCat Games]
Renay: Okay, you might be confused about where Question Tuesday is, but if you’re listening to this, then you know on Tuesday, we a very special announcement and episode about the Hugo Awards.
Renay: Hello Ana, two-time Hugo nominee!
Ana: Hello Renay, two-time Hugo nominee!
Renay: Nice to see you here.
Ana: How you doing?
Renay: I’m doing pretty great. It’s pretty exciting! So we’re here to answer some questions that have nothing to do with the Hugos but we thought we would brag just a little bit, anyway.
Ana: This will probably happen a few times so…
Renay: Or, you know, until the end of time.
[Music: B-3 by BoxCat Games]
Renay: First, I have a quick follow-up about a recent debate we had on whether cheesecake was a pie or a cake. Like, a lot of people have come at me going, “Pie has a lid,” and this blew my mind, Ana. I was a little thrown. I was like, “What the hell does that even mean, pie has a lid?!”
Ana: It does! It has!
Ana: It’s covered. It’s closed.
Renay: No it’s not! There’s tons of pies that aren’t closed. Pumpkin pie’s not closed, chess pie’s not closed.
Ana: But chess pie is like—it’s according to you, and the internet, it’s butter and sugar. That’s not a pie.
Renay: That’s a pie!
Ana: Or a cake! It’s actually just two ingredients.
Renay: It’s a pie! And also pumpkin pie. I know a lot of people are gonna be like, “Wait, don’t you put like whipped cream—?” who puts whipped cream on a pie? That’s gross. Who’s gonna put whipped cream on a pumpkin pie? Why you gonna do that? That’s not right.
Ana: I never ever had pumpkin pie and I dream about one day having pumpkin pie. Every time I go to New York, I tell Thea, “Thea, please take me to a place where I can eat pumpkin pie,” but I can never find it. This is the saddest thing I have ever said on this podcast. I know it.
Renay: I think you need to just come visit me and I will take you to eat all the pies.
Ana: Okay. Except that I’m not supposed to eat eggs or dairy so….
Renay: We can make you a pie, we’ll make you a pie. Somehow. That’s vegan! We’ll make you a vegan pumpkin pie.
Ana: Okay. All right. I’m coming.
Renay: I’ll see you soon. I’m just a little—people are trying to like pie shame me over me putting cheesecake in the pie category. But I’m not backing down, folks. Cheesecake belongs in the pie category. I don’t even know what this tart business is about! I don’t even – I don’t – mmm. I come from the South; a cheesecake is a pie. My whole childhood it was on the pie table. That’s where we kept cheesecake. Cakes were over there. Cheesecake were with the pie.
Ana: Okay, you can’t see it, but I’m actually taking a step back from the microphone right now. Don’t engage, Ana. Don’t engage.
Renay: I love that we created a debate on the Galactic Suburbia.
Renay: I love that this became such a debate. They pointed out that it was like the lemonade thing and I agree with Tansy that this was definitely a geography problem. Because cheesecake has always been a pie and other people in other parts of the US are like, “Ehhh, cake? Pie?” It’s up in the air. But here it’s always been a pie. So it’s definitely like a geography thing. Also there’s a lot—there’s been a lot of talk about cheesecakes without a crust and I’m very concerned, Ana, because I don’t—who makes cheesecake without a crust? And how does that even work?
Ana: That does seem a little bit wrong. I don’t want to shame people or pie-shame people or cheesecake-shame people, but really it ought to have a crust. Because then again, you are left with the problem that is only cheese. What’s the point of that?
Renay: I need to read some books about pie, I guess. I’m gonna solve this mystery, Ana, I’m gonna solve it!
Ana: You do it.
[Music: Rolling by BoxCat Games]
Renay: From runalongwomble: they want to know what three books would you take with you to a desert island?
Ana: You’d think that this was a simple question, but no.
Ana: Not for Ana. This question has always made me anxious because there is a conundrum here. Do I take books that I love? That would give comfort because I am alone? Or do I take books that I never read before because now there is finally time to read them? But what if they suck? Who would I talk to if they made angry? No one. Because it’s a desert island. And then I will have to just throw the book in the ocean and then what? What I would I do?
I think I’d take books that I loved and one that I haven’t read yet. I would take The King of Attolia by Megan Whalen Turner and Howl’s Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones. And then, I would take probably a new Terry Pratchett book. Maybe The Night Watch because I hear it’s awesome and I haven’t read that yet. But I plan to read it soon, so maybe ask me again in a few weeks.
Renay: I totally took this a different direction.
Renay: Because what three books would you take with you to a desert island doesn’t say you have to stay on the island forever. The question doesn’t include that part.
Renay: What if it was just a vacation? So you’re going to a desert island for a vacation.
Ana: You know it’s not a vacation. You know it means that you are be there forever.
Renay: I don’t know that because it’s not contained in the question. It’s a desert island. so maybe I got stranded but the question doesn’t say, “Hey, you’re never gonna get rescued!”
Ana: So then what you’re saying is that you wanna give six books, one in case we get rescued and one in case you don’t.
Renay: No. I would pick three books. but I just thought that was an interesting point to make about this question. I think you could read it either way and the type of person you are says a lot about the way you’re gonna read it. Apparently you’re worried about getting trapped on an island forever by yourself. Meanwhile I’m like, “Desert island? That sounds like a vacation!”
Renay: But Ana doesn’t know what the word vacation means, because even on vacation she works. But then so do I so I can’t really throw stones here. Anyway, I chose three books. The first is Montana Sky by Nora Roberts. It is one of her drama/romance /mystery books. It’s huge. I don’t know if you’ve ever read Montana Sky, Ana, but it’s massive.
Renay: That’s so sad, it’s so good. The second book I would take but be my big omnibus of Ms. Marvel before the reboot, so the whole entire run of Ms. Marvel before the terrible Secret Wars reboot happened. And then my third book: I was very very torn over what to take, but then I decided that I would go ahead and pick up Kaleidoscope, which is a collection of short stories. It came out from Twelfth Planet Press, which I have and have never read so I could take it and read one story at a time and it would last a while.
Ana: That’s an excellent choice. I really liked that.
Renay: That’s what I would take. Of course since I’m gonna be rescued, because I like to believe in optimism I would not have to reread them too many times.
Ana: That’s so you, Renay. That’s beautiful.
Renay: I think the lesson we’ve learned from this question is you’ve gotta be really specific with your questions because I will find a loophole.
[Music: Slow Down by Chuki Beats]
Renay: Our next question is from ecnef on Twitter or, as I call them, Fence. Hey Fence! What is your favorite Kate Elliott book and why?
Ana: I picked Poisoned Blade, because it’s super political, has amazing characters, and it’s YA so it’s a fast read too which for me is very important right now. And I really loved that one. I keep thinking about it. Are you gonna pick Black Wolves?
Renay: So my choice is Black Wolves by Kate Elliott. [laughter]
Ana: Oh, hear the surprise in my voice.
Renay: I don’t know what anybody expected. What did you people except? What did you think I was gonna say?! My first Kate Elliott was Cold Magic and I almost went with that one, but I still love Black Wolves the most even though I think Cold Magic is more accessible to new readers. Although now, I would probably start people with Court of Fives and then have them go onto Cold Magic. But yeah, Black Wolves. It’s Black Wolves. Black Wolves for President!
Renay: I love Black Wolves because it’s basically Kate Elliott punching epic fantasy in the face repeatedly. Like the tired tropes, the tired claims of ,”Women didn’t exist in history, all women did was have babies and get fucked and that was their role.” And Black Wolves just totally deconstructs that idea. And she deconstructs this idea of sexual violence as something only happens to women and she deconstructs how the patriarchy is an immovable objects that was granted to men by divine right and she shows how it is just a social institution. She shows how memory and history can change the world in a very short time and I love all these things about the novel. It has a lot of re-read value. Like you could read it multiple times and pick up something new every single time. There’s so many threads, it’s so intricate, and I just love it so much. A lot of people went bought Black Wolves because I recommended and they saw the size of it but haven’t read it yet. I’m sorry to everybody.
Ana: That includes me.
Renay: Yeah, 800 pages is a lot. I know. I’m sorry. But it’s so good! And once it finally gets to some payoff it’s so good! Okay, I’ll let it go.
[Music: Memories by Chuki Beats]
Ana: My question for you is very easy. What is the public figure you most admire?
Renay: I don’t understand how this is an easy question. This is really hard!
Ana: It is not an easy question. I was, like, being sarcastic.
Renay: Oh, well. I missed your sarcasm! I thought you were really gonna ask me an easy question! Oh no!
Ana: I wouldn’t know how to answer it.
Renay: So, public figure. So somebody who’s a celebrity in some way.
Renay: Well, I think I’m going to have to be predictable because a lot of people are gonna be like, “Renay just say it, it’s fine if it’s a white dude. It’s fine.” I follow Chris Evans pretty closely, because as you know, his video was the one that saved my behind when I was very ill. I follow him mostly because he has great therapists because he has tons of money to afford great therapists. so he’s always like spouting therapy speak and optimism and I’m just like, “I wanna get to where he is.” And I think it’s easier for me to admire men, now, because growing up I had no men to admire? At all. To represent—so now that I’m an adult, I can be really discerning about the men I listened to.
Ana: That’s really cool. I didn’t know what you were gonna answer.
Renay: I mean, probably the problem is that I have so many women than I admire that I don’t know how to narrow it down, too.
Ana: But he speaks to you on a very deep level and I think that’s okay. And you don’t need to explain yourself.
Renay: Well yeah, but a lot of people would be like, “Renay, why is your person you admire most a white dude?” and I get really nervous about that. I’m just like, “Well, because I grew up around a lot white dudes who were terrible, and I had nobody who was a man in my life to admire at all, so….”
Ana: No, but listen, the first thing you said was that he saved your life. You don’t need to say anything else.
Renay: Because anxiety is such an integral part of my life, dealing with it, because I’m gonna have it forever, like I’m never gonna get quote-unquote “better,” you don’t get quote-unquote “better,” you work at it your whole life. So it’s such an integral part of my life and I have to cope with it every single day, so I just feel like it’s normal that the dude whose words saved my life stays pretty important to me. And I get defensive about it because a lot of people are like, “Oh it’s a celebrity” and “He did what?” But it’s just like, I don’t even think it mattered. It just happened to be him. He just happened to have the words I needed at the right time. And like you can never predict who that’s going to be.
Ana: It’s okay, Renay.
Renay: Thank you for telling me it’s okay.
Ana: And thank you for answering my question. You went deep.
Renay: And also, anybody out there: don’t let people shame you over people you admire.
Renay: It doesn’t matter who they are. I am a good example of why you should not care if people judge you for who you admire because if they do, you don’t need them. Drop ’em.
[Music: Mornings by Chuki Beats]
Renay: So as we record this you are planning to leave for Brazil. And as people listen to this you are probably already in Brazil, chilling, with a fruity drink. Please have a fruity drink when you get there, relax, take a break.
Ana: Thank you.
Renay: So I thought that I would do a speed-round!
Renay: Yes, where I ask you a bunch of questions to make up for the fact—
Ana: Oh my god!
Renay: —that we’re not gonna have a Question Tuesday until you get back! So are you ready?
Ana: Oh shit. I’m never ready for those. Okay. Shoot.
Renay: What is your favourite vegetable?
Ana: Avocado, no it’s a fruit! Ah! [laughter] Kale.
Renay: Do you collect anything that’s NOT books?
Ana: Award nominations.
Renay: If you were a crayon, what color would you be?
Renay: What is your favorite nineties song?
Ana: [laughter] Backstreet…Boys?
Renay: You gotta go with it, which song?
Ana: [singing] Keep playing games with my heart!
Renay: What was the last gift you got?
Ana: My birthday gift from Russel, that’s upcoming. It’s a trip to Madrid.
Renay: If you could have a pet, which—what pet would you have?
Renay: Who would win a fight between Spiderman and Batman?
Renay: If you had to be someone else for one day who would you choose to be, and why?
Ana: I would be my partner, because he has a really different way of looking at the world that’s completely alien to me and I would like to see how that feels.
Renay: If your friends had to choose an animal for you to be what do you think they would choose?
Ana: A tiger. Is that correct, Renay? Would you choose me to be a tiger? You answer that question.
Renay: Aha! I’m going to take—to plead the fifth because I’m an American! How many pairs of shoes do you own?
Ana: Oh shit.
Ana: About fifty, I think.
Renay: If you were a character from Lost, which one would you be?
Ana: Oh, man! Desmond.
Renay: Would you be willing to eat a bowl of crickets for forty thousand dollars?
Renay: For forty thousand dollars.
Renay: [laughter] I’m never gonna let this go! Ohhh, okay, that’s all I have for you. That’s gonna tide everybody over until you get back.
Ana: Well, thanks for putting me on the spot there. And you never answered the question of what animal do you think I would be.
Renay: I can’t answer this question.
Ana: Oh my god. I am so terrified. What animal do you think I would be, Renay? You have to answer that question.
Renay: … A golden retriever…
Ana: WHAT?! They are craziest-ass dogs!
Renay: But they’re pretty…
Ana: A tiger is pretty too! Why am a fucking dog—I hate?! Renay, I hate this [bang] podcast is over [bang] I cannot believe this —
Ana: I cannot believe you think of me as a fucking golden retriever, oh my god. I don’t know, how do you see me?
Ana: How is this even possible? This cannot be real life!
Ana: How can such a good friend of mine —
Ana: — see me as a fucking dog and as a golden retriever. Not even like as a pitbull or something like that, no, a fucking golden retriever.
[Music: Happy Summer Love by Chuki Beats]
Renay: And that’s the end. Thanks to runalongwomble and Fence for sending in questions. And Ana, we’ll miss your charming answers for the next month.
Ana: Take care of our little podcast, Renay.
Renay: I will. Our show’s art is by Ira, who sometimes twitters at @itsjustira. Our transcripts are made by us by Susan, who is a beautiful human who gives great life advice and makes excellent transcripts of our many, many, MANY, petty arguments about desserts. She’s a superhero. Our music this week is by Chuki Beats and Box Cat Games. Links to all these awesome folks will be in our show notes at fangirlhappyhour.com.
Ana: What three books would you take to a desert island? Which animal do you think Renay is? Let’s turn the table, baby.
Ana: Let us know via twitter at @fangirlpodcast or email us at email@example.com. And if you like our show, you can give our episode announcements a retweet or reblog or write your own recommendation on your social media of choice, or anywhere else you like! We are also on Patreon.
Renay: Remember to drink enough water, practice good sleep hygiene, and contact your reps!
Ana: And those advices are also very good if you are on a desert island… Maybe not contacting your reps that much.
Renay: Thanks for listening to our show, friends.
Ana: [Schwarzenegger voice] I’ll be back!
[Music: Happy Summer Love by Chuki Beats]
Renay: Whhhhhhhhy! I don’t understand why allergies have to be so bad! This is the worst!
Renay: God, I was so confused! [laughter]
Renay: [whispers] Read Black Wolves!
Renay: What was I gonna ask you Ana? Do you remember? [laughter]
Ana: No, you said “Mwahahahahahahahahahaha.” [snorts]
Ana: Do you want some time to think about it and ask me my question?
Renay: No, you didn’t—this is a trick! It was a trick the entire time!
Ana: This lightning round is just no lightning! [laughter]
Renay: You throw me off my game! You’ve thrown me off my game!
Renay: Okay, okay. Okay. Okay, we’re back, we’re back okay.
Ana: Oh my GOD, look at the face of this fucking golden retriever. It looks so happy that’s not me! [laughter] It looks so stupid!
Renay: No it doesn’t. They’re super smart dogs! Golden retrievers the ones that they train to be like, therapy dogs and seeing eye dogs.
Renay: Ana, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do with myself? I’m so overworked! [laughter]
Ana: Join the club, I guess.
Renay: Is there a club? Is there membership dues?
Renay: What are the benefits like?
Ana: No benefits whatsoever. It’s death.
Renay: [laughter] [wails]
Renay: Sometimes after Ana hangs up her end on Skype I just sit here and I stare and I miss her. [sniffs] Bye Ana.