Episode #89 Transcript: “The Handmaid’s Tale (1985)”

Episode Number: 89
Episode Title: The Handmaid’s Tale (1985) (listen to this episode)
Transcript by: Susan the Great

Please contact us if you spot any errors.

Renay: Hello friends! I’m Renay.

Ana: And I’m Ana.

Renay: And you’re listening to Fangirl Happy Hour.

[Music: B-3 by Boxcat Games]

Renay: Today we’re here to discuss to discuss The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood, as part of our Patreon-sponsored Vault episodes. Thank you patrons for making these episodes happen.

Ana: Yay, thank you!

Renay: Ana’s gonna do a little dance over there.

Ana: I’m doing a little dance. Nobody can see it but I’m doing it.

Renay: I think we have to start with how terrifying is this book, on a scale from one to ten?

Ana: Ten.

Renay: I would also give it a ten.

Ana: [sigh] Oh my god, I just don’t even know how to start with it, because it really affected me in a way that I wasn’t expecting.

This was the first time that I read this book. [sigh] I’m not even sure if it had been translated into Portuguese before, and then of course it wasn’t part of my school years or university or anything because I didn’t go to school in the US, or in the UK. I’m not even sure if it’s part of the curriculum in the UK.

But anyway, so I have not read it before. Of course I have heard so many things about it throughout the years as a book blogger and within the SFF community.

And then the TV show came out. I watched the first half of the first episode and then I decided that I wanted to read the book first. Also because I know we already had that in our—in the horizon for the podcast and I knew it was going to happen soon. Did you watch the TV show?

Renay: I did not. I was too afraid of it because I had read the book before. I wasn’t sure that I could handle it.

Ana: I only watched the first half of the first episode and that’s basically half of the book. So I don’t know what—what’s gonna happen in the rest of the show.

Renay: TV and books are pretty different mediums and with TV you have a lot of other options and I know that Margaret Atwood was involved in the production. So I’m really curious to watch it but I was just like, “I can not handle this right now.”

Ana: So was this your second re-read?

Renay: Yeah, this book was not part of my high school or college curriculum. I don’t ever remember seeing this book as part of the stuff that I was supposed to do for classwhich is very strange to me because I guess it’s like, a classic? Quote-unquote classic. I eventually read it because a friend in Canada sent me a copy. He thought it would be instructive, I guess? But it was like he mailed me a horror novel!

Ana: Actually, this is one conversation that I want us to have: what is the genre of this novel?

Renay: It’s horror. It’s a horror novel.

Ana: [laughter] Because of course it’s in the literary fiction section, right? It’s not SFF, even though it’s obviously a dystopian future. It does have element of horror for sure. It’s a hybrid, isn’t it? Of litfic and science fiction.

Renay: It’s one of those books that proves how malleable our genre labels are.

Ana: Absolutely. And how it’s also down to say, a marketing department to decide where it’s gonna fit, how the conversation around it’s gonna go.

Renay: I would think that a bunch of different marketers could do it in multiple different ways and it would work just fine. If they wanted to market it as science fiction novel they could do it, if they wanted to market it as literary fiction they could do that, if they wanted to be like, “Let’s do a horror version!” they could do that, too. It depends on your perspective; how you look at it.

Ana: It’s interesting also that you mentioned that it’s a classic. And then that really struck me because I was like, “How can it possibly be a classic because not that old,” but it is that old. It’s more than thirty years old now.

Renay: It was published in 1985.

Ana: Which in turn also makes me think about how the future in this book is very much a 1985 version of the future, right? It’s because it’s the early twenty-first century, but it feels like it skipped most of what we have seen in the noughts, in terms of social media, in terms of internet, in terms of conversations like that. It is a future that feels like it’s straight from the seventies to the 2000s.

Renay: And you would think that would make me less terrified, because they call computers like, compudocs, compucheck. Oh no. That didn’t keep me from absolutely gutted by all of the stuff that happened in this novel.

Ana: Do we need to introduce the book to our listeners or do you think everybody knows about it?

Renay: I think everybody knows about it.

Ana: I didn’t know exactly what it was about, because like I said I hadn’t read it before and I kind of vaguely knew that it was something terrifying about women, but not exactly what the details were. And there were all certain things that really surprised me about it that I wasn’t expecting. The framing device, was one of the surprises of the book. And the way that it felt so normalized, in many ways, that new reality, even though it was brand new.

Renay: You’re probably right that I shouldn’t assume this novel is everywhere. I think I made that assumption because it was nowhere in my childhood and I didn’t hear about it in college. When I started to like push outside of college, make friends outside of my regular circles, they would be like, “Hey, try this book,” and suddenly I got all this cultural baggage on top of this book. It just came rushing in. So probably to me that’s why it feels like everybody knows about it, because I didn’t know about it at all until suddenly I realized it was everywhere and everybody knew about it. Except for me.

Ana: Do you think that you not knowing about it before—is it because of where you live, the kind of cultural background you have around you and the fact that this novel is so feminist? Or it provides a look into what a misogynistic society could do to women.

Renay: My library just didn’t carry a lot of books by women that were science fiction and fantasy. I don’t think anybody deliberately kept it from me. I’m sure that if I had gone into a bookstore in one of the cities I lived in I would have seen it.

Ana: You just didn’t know it was there at that stage.

Renay: Yeah.

Ana: Neither did I. But now that we know, and we have put ourselves through the wringer by reading The Handmaid’s Tale, what do we think about it?

Renay: Yikes. That’s what I think about it: yikes.

I got really curious because when I realized this was published in 1985, for some reason I thought it was older than that, but it’s not. And I was just like, “Hm. I wonder what other things happened back in the day that feel like they happened a long time ago but actually didn’t.” So I went and looked some stuff up! Ana, are you ready to hear about fucked-up the US was in the late twentieth century?

Ana: Yes.

Renay: In 1965, Griswold v. Connecticut ruled that the Constitution protected a right to privacy. The case itself involved a Connecticut law that prohibited any person from using any drug, medicinal article, or instrument, for the purpose of preventing conception. We only got the right to do family planning in 1965.

So moving onto 1967: President Lyndon B. Johnson signed Executive Order 11375, which banned discrimination on the basis of sex and hiring in employment in both the United States Federal Workforce and on the part of government contractors.

Ana: Do you know when that happened in Brazil?

Renay: When?

Ana: 1988.

Renay: Yep.

Ana: I’ve got my stats, too.

Renay: In 1968, the Fair Housing Act was first enacted, and it prohibited discrimination on the basis of sex. No longer could women be treated like crap trying to find housing in 1968.

This one blew my mind: in 1971, barring women from practicing law was prohibited. 1971. That wasn’t that long ago guys.

Also in 1971: Phillips v. Martin Marietta Corp was a case in which the court held that under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, an employer may not in the absence of business necessity, refuse to hire women with pre-school age children while hiring men with such children.

Ana: [laughter] Okay. So these are actual laws that are being passed because these things existed at that stage in time.

Renay: Yep.

Ana: And that’s where our character was kind of like more or less a child in.

Renay: And then in 1972, Title IX is a portion of the United States Education Amendments of 1972. Part of it says, no person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. This is the title that allowed girls to play sports in schools.

Ana: Oi.

Renay: 1972.

Ana: It’s just for schools—that receive public funding, so that means that if it’s a private school that law does not apply to that.

Renay: Yep. Also in 1972, a court case established the right of unmarried people to possess contraception on the same basis as married couples.

Ana: At that stage in the seventies my mother could not sign a check without my father being next to her.

Renay: In 1973, Roe v. Wade was a decision by the United States Supreme Court on the issue of abortion. The court ruled seven to two that a right to privacy under the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment extended to a woman’s decision to have an abortion, but that this right must be balanced against the state’s two legitimate interests in regulating abortions: protecting women’s health, and protecting the potentiality of human life.

And this is why states are working so hard to chip away at Roe. This was 1973. And this court wrote into law that you could prevent abortions if you were protecting women’s health. This has been used for such skeevy things I wish I could time travel to 1973 and punch every dude on this court. In the dick.

Ana: [laughter]

Renay: We don’t need protection. We know our own bodies. Leave us alone.

And the one you just referenced; in 1974 the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, the ECOA, is a law that makes it unlawful for any creditor to discriminate against any applicant. Until the ECOA, banks required single, widowed, or divorced women to bring a man along to co-sign any credit application regardless of their income. They would also discount the value of those wages when considering how much credit to grant by as much 50%. So think about economic stability. Think about all the thing the things we use credit for these days. They check your credit score to get phones, to get a car, to buy a house. Even in the 1970s, women were still often at the whim of men.

Ana: Absolutely. It was not until 1962 that women were allowed to work outside the house without their husband’s say-so. They could before, if the husband allowed it.

Renay: In 1978, the Pregnancy Discrimination Act of 1978 amended Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to prohibit sex-discrimination of the basis of pregnancy.

This is the socio-political and economic context in which Margaret Atwood lived, thought about this book in, and eventually wrote this book in.

Ana: History in the book is happening very much so around those changes. The protagonist’s mother used to go on marches and protests and she was a feminist and she was very outspoken about those issues within the book. And it’s interesting because it shows a inter-generational— I would say even conflict, because our character at least from what we could grasp on the way that she portrayed herself, I think she felt that her mother did what she did and those rights were achieved, and she didn’t need to do any more, and that’s fine, and feminism is pretty much over, at that stage. She wasn’t particularly woke in those terms. That’s the feeling that I had about this character before everything happened to her. From the way that she described her reality, her life, and her feelings. And also the way that she seemed to react to what was happening to her. Because I felt a sense of detachment from her. I didn’t know whether it was because it was a sense of self-protection, for her to protect her own sanity, or if it was because, as we later learned, because of the narrative device, because she was dictating to someone else, or she was recording what was happening.

Renay: I think that detachment is probably correct. She feels very distant. I sometimes wonder how much of it is detachment from events as they happen. Because as we’re reading, we’re reading a version of it after the fact, and we don’t know how she felt in the moment, truly. She’s only remembering it and memories can change. And sometimes she’ll break out of it. I think there’s a portion of the novel where she’s really upset. In her telling of the story’s she’s like, “Oh god, oh god,” and that’s one of the only times where we really see her break that detachment.

Ana: And it’s probably then when her memories probably hit her. Ugh. Ugggh.

Renay: So this novel contains subjugation of women. It contains rape. It has kidnapping; murder.

Ana: All sorts of different kinds of abuse.

Renay: When my friend gave me this book and I mentioned it to somebody else, they were like, “Oh, that’s the book about the crazy Christians.” While I was reading it this didn’t feel like Christianity to me and I grew up Southern Baptist. I mean, I left pretty early, but I grew up that way. And this did not feel the same. It’s like whatever group this was borrowed a lot of religious ideals, and behavior, but it didn’t feel Christian. It was like the bastardised version of some form of Christianity.

Ana: The world is immersed in a type of Christianity because it mentions the Bible, and it has the way that the characters are named, the rituals that they must follow and the reasoning behind it. However, I feel like this is not a deeply-seated religious mandate. It’s much more, “We need to do this, we will do this, and this is our excuse. This is the only possible way that we can do it.” It exploits religion. When I say it: who are we talking about even?

Renay: The leaders are military. In the book, from how I read it this started in the military.

Ana: There is not like one figure that you follow.

Renay: Or is there and we just never see it because it’s not relevant to where our narrator was?

Ana: It could be.

Renay: Obviously there is a hierarchy because you have—

Ana: —the commanders and you have someone they answer to.

Renay: We only see such a small part of Gilead. We don’t know how things are elsewhere. We also see them using visuals as propaganda, to be sent to like quote-unquote “colonies.” Everything the narrator sees, we don’t know what’s true, what’s real, what’s propaganda; we don’t know how far up it goes. We don’t know how far out it goes. So we’re very limited in our view, because our narrator is limited in her view. Her world is deliberately limited.

Ana: But then in the end, we have that extra element of the researchers looking at it and giving a talk about it, and mentioning that it was one brief moment in the history of the United States. And it very much feels like it was this very isolated thing. It’s an American thing.

Renay: A very very very specific type of America. It seems like New England, perhaps? Because they take the capital, they take Boston, they obviously take Maine too, and it’s also difficult because the researchers fuck it up. They assume and infer a lot of things that there’s no way for them to know about? I found the guy giving the talk pretty condescending and I’m not sure how useful it is to look at his criticism and assumptions about Gilead.

Ana: I think it would be useful in terms of how we can look at its place historically, but nothing beyond that. Because like you said, it seems to be a biased look and even sometimes I felt slightly sexist, too. Are things not that different a hundred and fifty years later?

Renay: I always imagine Gilead as being part of New England, but they talk about tapes found in Seattle, which is across the country so how far did this spread? They also talk about the Republic of Texas and how they formed their own government. Was that government there the whole time? Or did Gilead actually take over the whole country? So you never know; the book doesn’t explain to you, like the political and geographical makeup of the US at any point so it just leaves it up in the air.

The way I took it is that Gilead was a very limited place in New England. He talked about how one of the researchers of the early Gilead period, who didn’t live to see the country develop. He shipped his notes and stuff to somebody in Canada. If they were finding stuff on the West Coast about Gilead people had been recording it and shipping it out. Because I don’t see how even with the military, the US is big. And if they say it’s over, cause they’re having this little meeting in 2165 or whatever—if this period has ended—then they couldn’t’ve had this whole country.

Ana: Even during the narrative we hear about resistance. So those are happening. Her narrative survives—assuming that it’s real—survives because there is a resistance.

Renay: There are the Eyes and apparently there’s a resistance in the Eyes. These are the supposedly like investigative body of Gilead. And then you have like an underground femaleroad. I was very uncomfortable with this terminology.

Ana: I know, right?

Renay: I was like, “You could not have named it anything else? Do you have to appropriate something that does belong to you, Margaret Atwood?” And I also—the point you made about sexism, they make a joke, the underground frailroad.

Ana: At that point, I took a step back because I thought to myself, “Oh, maybe it’s not over, maybe it’s someone still from the future of Gilead, looking at the beginning of Gilead.” But no, it’s just flippant comment about women.

Renay: At least there were two different resistance groups that Offred came in contact with. One of them, she loses contact with because they discover her and she kills herself. Although I’m not really sure if I trust that story about Ofglen killing herself because she realized the Eyes were onto her. I’m not sure I trust that narrative.

Ana: Yeah, it could be propaganda.

Renay: Or even perhaps to lead her, to give her the idea. Because a person that was in her room, the person that the Commander and Serena Joy had before her committed suicide. The reason I wonder if the suicide as a way out is not being fed to them by Gilead government is because the doctor tells her, “Well, soon you won’t be able to have kids anymore.” She’s thirty-three years old, so also this government is pedaling this really gross idea about female fertility. It’s not like you turn thirty-five and suddenly you have like a 90% less chance of getting pregnant. Like my mom had me when she was forty. My mom had me in her forties in the 1980s. They’re pedaling this propaganda like once you hit a certain age, I assume thirty-five, you run out of time, you’re no longer viable, so maybe you wanna start thinking of a way out.

Ana: The way I read this: it’s because the women by the time they get to their age and if they’re pregnant, it’s easier for them to blame the women than to say that the man cannot have children. So that’s part of it, too.

Renay: Because the fertility issues that were happening were happening to all Caucasian people specifically, not just Caucasian women.

Ana: Was there a nuclear fallout at some point? Is that why the whole thing with the colonies and people have radiation, is that what was happening in the outside world? One of the things that surprised me is that there were still technology going. There were still electricity and computers and that was one of the most surprising things for me about the book, because I did not expect it. Especially because I kept seeing the images of the women with the red cloaks. I associate that with going back in time, and there obviously, there hasn’t been a cut in technology, per se, there’s still television, radio, everything. So what is happening in the world.

Renay: So at one point they watch the news and they talk about the Children of Ham being routed out of Detroit and moved to Nebraska. “Oh if you mess up you’ll get sent to the colonies.” I don’t believe that Gilead was that big. I think it was all lies. Almost everything we hear is a lie, so, “Oh you’ll have to go to the colonies and you’ll get radiation poisoning and die.” I don’t think that was a real thing.

Ana: You think they were just killed? Extermination?

Renay: They were either sent to like farms or they were killed. Because with nuclear bombs, if you’re going to have that much radiation, that could kill you…

Ana: That’s gonna be everywhere.

Renay: Yeah, the Earth doesn’t sit in one space. Se have weather patterns. I’m sure somebody’s going to explain to me, “Yes Renay, this could totally happen like this.” I don’t understand how it could happen like this. If this happened in the late eighties, early nineties, and we’re watching the twenty-first century of this world. any sort of nuclear explosion is gonna affect way more than just the borders of the—of these colonies. So I think it’s just propaganda by Gilead to scare them into obedience and any video that they saw was just more propaganda.

Ana: But it’s also about control, right? How do you control people? You give them no choice, you let them think they have no options, and you give them no options.

Renay: Except options you want them to have.

Ana: Exactly.

Renay: I don’t know how much of the dysfunction in the house that Offred was in is indicative of dysfunction in other homes. Serena Joy and the commander don’t seem to get along. and Offred is just one of maybe several women who he has broken the rules for, invited into his office to play scrabble with him. and I really got the sense that the commander was a true believer of this world that they had built.

Ana: You had a sense that he was a true believer?

Renay: He was okay with how the world was. Men were in power so they could make exceptions to rules that women couldn’t make.

Ana: That’s a very interesting take in this situation. Your reading is really good and could be a possibility. I read it as he wasn’t a true believer. He was exploiting the situation to his benefit. There is an element of belief there, obviously, otherwise it would all fall apart, but I think he was very pragmatic, too. He knew where the power was, of course he saw women as beneath him, but I’m not sure if he was as true believer as he was supposed to have been. Although, I really like your reading too.

Renay: I’m pretty sure the reason that I think that is because of the conversation that they have in the bar when he takes her out. He wants to break the rules because it gives him a power trip.

Ana: Yes.

Renay: So he wants to see her reading. He wants to see her wearing lingerie. He wants to take her out and let her do things she’s not supposed to do. He gets off on it. Based on what he told her in the bar, and all the things he lets her do and get away with, that why I think, “Oh, totally true believer, totally getting off on this.” Although we’re only seeing his behavior through her perspective, so then we have to consider it that way.

You have to think about the professor’s talk at the end where he said he did the research to find out who Offred might have been. He looks into two potential men, but their wives weren’t named Serena Joy, which makes me wonder if Offred maybe made up her name so she wouldn’t be found. Then I’ve got to go, “Okay, well if she made that up, what else did she embellish or disguise to throw off the scent of people who might find her?” I don’t believe the professor at the end in the talk found—

Ana: The true guy?

Renay: No, I don’t think he did.

Ana: Do we like that character? Do we have sympathy for him?

Renay: I don’t.

Ana: No.

Renay: I have no sympathy for anybody except for the people like Rita, Cora, Offred, the people that were trapped in this system. The women who were complicit in it, that fucked me up.

Ana: Do they have any choice?

Renay: You always have a choice.

Ana: Or is it that about survival, too?

Renay: Well, if you take the choice to subjugate somebody else for power, just so you survive, what kind of survival is that? You’re alive, but that’s about it. I wouldn’t judge a woman who decided, “I would rather be alive in this situation with power over these other women,” but I could not do it. I could not do it. It’s too fucked up.

Ana: I really don’t know what I would do in that situation.

Renay: I would be like Moira. Although in the end they beat her down too. They find a place where she’ll fit and they stick her there.

Ana: That’s so fucked up, that bar, that bar fucked me up. That hotel, that whole situation. I just did not see that coming. And yet, it’s just so fucking human.

Renay: Leave it to men to create a patriarchal utopia and then get mad when there’s not enough porn.

Ana: [laughter]

Renay: Possibly that’s Atwood’s argument about purity and how men often think they want one thing but inevitably create the system that came before just in another form. So my question is whether Offred truly escaped. We know she recorded the tapes, and they were found, but did she truly escape?

Ana: Yeah.

Renay: Do you think she ever got her daughter back?

Ana: No.

Renay: This novel fucked me up. Fucked me up the first time, fucked me up this time.

Ana: What was the most terrifying moment for you?

Renay: When they were beating the man that they said raped a woman to death. They just set all these handmaid’s loose on this dude. I consider my cats and how sometimes I’ll accidentally pet one of them the wrong way and get them all riled up and they’ll go and attack another cat. Cause they can’t attack me because I’m too big. I mean, they could, but they’re afraid, so they go attack another cat that they know that they can beat. The vet calls it redirected aggression. So that’s exactly what that was. They turn the handmaid’s into animals, redirect all of their aggression and anger at this man who we later learn from Ofglen is a spy, and they were just punishing him by lying about him and letting them tear him apart. And that messed me up. Redirected aggression: so they don’t explode at the wives or the commanders.

Ana: For me, the moment that was most terrifying was the moment of transition. When it happened. Because the main character was at work, and it was a day like any other. although it’s obviously there were signs that things were happening because of laws being passed, and then the constitution that was just—they suspended the constitution. When it happened, it was as easy as nobody carries cash anymore, her credit cards were blocked. No women could use a credit card, or a card, or have access to a bank account, therefore they had to access to money, and then all women were fired.

And that’s it. That’s all it takes. And that felt completely within the realm of something that could actually happen. And I felt so fucking terrified at that moment.

Renay: If you wanna control people you control them economically.

Ana: It’s just incredible. And one of the things I liked the most about the book is exactly because it shows that moment of transition and then it shows the very beginning of the Gilead experiment, say of the Gilead dystopia. Offred had been living there for about three years, right? So it had been only a few years and a lot of the aunts kept saying, “Oh, things will get better eventually because you are only the first ones and things are a bit rough right now, but we’re just tweaking the way that this world’s gonna work and you should consider yourselves as pioneers.” So that element of that transitional period was really interesting to me.

But that was the moment where I was most the most terrified and then, when she was—she was married at that point, and then she realized that she was wholly dependant on her husband Luke. And the most heartbreaking moment was when she said, “And I don’t think he actually is bothered by it. He likes it.” Oh my gods. That was just awful. Heartbreaking. And this is why I don’t like Luke. Because he didn’t seem to fight enough as a man against the whole thing. He was like, “Oh it’s gonna be okay! What—why is the problem, why do you have a problem with me being in charge of our bank accounts. It’s just money.” Fuck you Luke.

Renay: He was complicit. And you talked earlier about intragenerational stuff, about her mom was a protestor, and she sorta just saw that as something in the past. Whereas I think if she had been more like her mom, if she had continued it, if she had developed the feminism that her mom had had, she would have been out. She would have left way earlier. But she didn’t think it was relevant to her. She thought all those battles were past.

Ana: Exactly.

Renay: The lesson is that the battles are never past. We’re still fighting for the same things we were fighting for back in the seventies. It’s 2017 and we’re still having these same battles.

Ana: The same conversations over and over again about women’s rights and women’s equal pay is still not equal, and we still talk about abortion and all that fucked up….

Renay: This book is obviously dated, but it’s still so terrifyingly relevant. And I would love to get to a time where this book would no longer be relevant.

Ana: Where we could just read it and laugh it off.

Renay: What?!

Ana: No, but imagine a future where we can read actually read this book and look at something that was like a piece of history that is no longer relevant at all because this could never happen. “Look at this, ha ha ha, how ridiculous, who would even have ideas like this?” How many more years do you think it will take to get to this point?

Renay: Probably over a hundred.

Ana: I was gonna say over a thousand, so you’re very much more optimistic than I am.

Renay: Well I know a lot of—what are we calling them? Gen Z? So many of them are genderfluid, queer, they don’t care about gender roles. So I have a lot of hope, because I know a lot of the kids like that.

Ana: Good.

Renay: So I think that’s why I’m more optimistic. I think gender as a social construct—it can be so poisonous when you force it into a binary.

Ana: This book is very much within that, isn’t it? There is no scope for any other gender, there is no talk of—I don’t think I saw any mention to trans people…

Renay: The only people that the book mentions is “gender traitors,” which are queer people.

Ana: Right, yes. Isn’t it a fun book.

Renay: Wow, how many space bees are we gonna give this book, Ana?

Ana: I would give it five, I think?

Renay: I’m giving it four. I can’t get over the compucheck, the compudoc. I can’t get over it.

Ana: I think worse than that is the underground femaleroad.

Renay: So yeah, I’m giving it four.

Ana: Okay, yeah, you know what, you have a point. Four from me too.

Renay: Boy I bet our patrons are glad they voted for this one! I think reading this book every twelve or so years is pretty good for me. I think I’m good until 2034.

Ana: I don’t think I’m gonna read it ever again.

Renay: I don’t blame you.

Ana: But I am going to watch the show.

Renay: Yes, me too. We should come back and discuss the show!

Ana: Yes!

Renay: Tell everybody what we’re going to talk about next time.

Ana: We are going to continue our dive into the Young Avengers with The Avengers: Children’s Crusade. Then we’ll be discussing a Star Trek fanfic called War Games, and Renay is probably gonna cry because we are finally going to do this? And then we will be talking about how to get into comics when you’re kinda bad at understanding the comics industry.

[Music: Happy Summer Love by Chuki Beats]

Renay: Thanks very much to our Patreon supporters for making this episode possible.

Ana: We appreciate each and every one of you for supporting our work.

Renay: You can follow and chat with us on twitter at @fangirlpodcast. You can email us at any time at fangirlhappyhour@gmail.com with feedback, concerns, or questions. If you listen to us on iTunes, we’d love it if you left us a review.

Ana: Our show art was made by Ira. You can find links to their work in our show notes, along with information about the media we discussed in today’s episode. Susan transcribes our episodes, and you can read them on our website at fangirlhappyhour.com.

Renay: Practice good sleep hygeine, get plenty of water, and contact your reps every day.

Ana: Listen, I have only one advice to give, which is: invest in gold. Keep a stash of cash. Do not rely solely on credit cards.

Renay: Thanks for listening, space bees.

Ana: See you next episode!

[Music: Happy Summer Love – Chuki Beats]

Renay: Nothing matters anymore. [whispers] Nothing matters.

Ana: Yeah, I got nothing.

[beep]

Renay: They lie directly to our faces! [laughter] I can’t even talk. I’m so upset about it!

[beep]

Renay: Ow. I just cracked my jaw.

Ana: Was that—was that your jaw? Geez.

[beep]

Renay: I can—don’t let me steal everything Ana! Okay.

Ana: [laughter]

[beep]

Ana: I need to get some cash. [laughter] Under my—my mattress or something.

[beep]

Renay: Are your vowels the same as Spanish vowels?

Ana: More or less.

Renay: Oh okay, interesting.

[beep] [beep]